Real 3D versus Fake 3D

One of these things is not like the other.  One is made with quadrilaterals, the other with triangles.  Popularly referred to all over the Internet as "sprites" or "polygons."  Misdirected mathematical assumptions aside, let's focus on something else.  Draw distance.  At what draw distance does a game become "good" at 3D?  We will start with the most obvious examples, popularized by the most emmanently unbiased game magazine ever, Edge/NextGeneration.

On the left we have the rushed Saturn launch game Daytona USA, often pointed to as evidence that the Saturn was "not a 3D system."  On the right, we have Wipeout by the legendary Psygnosis, often pointed to as the reason why the Playstation was clearly better at 3D games.  Present in both, texture warping, pop in, lower detail vehicle models than contemporary 3D Arcade titles. 

But, how about that draw distance?  Is one better than the other, or is one simply less obvious because of the background color?

Saturn Pre-Launch Daytona USA ----- ----- ----- Flawless PS1 Wipeout

The Sony Playstation 2 (PS2) Launch Hype

Key phrases to listen for and judge for yourself.

Top Left, 1999 - Playstation 2 Revealed:

"What's ten times more powerful than any console out there now?"

"What plays DVD movies?"

"And what works with your current Playstation games, and lets you use your existing controller, memory cards, and other licensed Sony peripherals?"

"Check out the fire!" "And the Spraying Water!"

"They're made up of thousands of particles. Never before could so many particles be on screen at once."


Top Right, Game Wars: Playstation vs Xbox documentary (2000):

"My favorite phrase about Playstation recently someone described it as the fastest growing religion in Europe. And it has that, sort of, feel to it."

Upcoming Comparisons for Spring of 2014


“All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.”

Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune

"If you lived in a dark age, how would you know?" - A Medieval Literature Professor

-edit 2022-

What was I talking about way back in 2014? Internet forums and social media. Particularly Sega-16, but so many others, have zero internal consistency. The regular posters, referred to as "owners" from this point on, will flip on any topic and state anything just to stay in the discussion. This has resulted in a poisoning of the well of information to the point that the modern Internet is totally unrecoverable. We have people who believe anything they read online, and then forget it almost immediately, except in these choice cases. Productive members of Beyond3D have also been posting to "Sega" fan site Sega-16 forums as well, various discoveries through reverse engineering, including character model polygon counts, and level polygon counts, for games from various generations. Here was my initial post, and the immediate reply from a Sega-Extreme and and Sega-16 member who will go to absolutely no end to maintain his self enforced reputation:

Upcoming 32-64-bit, 5th-6th Gen Comparisons
TrekkiesUnite118: "No, you were trying to claim the entire generation was hovering around 1 Million polygons per second which isn't true at all. This reverse engineering if anything is proving the points that were made previously still hold true. The Dead or Alive example holds true to what we had already stated years ago. The game was stated to be around 2-3 Million Polygons per second which that seems to hold up with the findings here. It also holds up with what ChillyWilly said about around 3-4 Million polygons per second being about the most you could get on Dreamcast. But again that number I believe is for non-textured polygons. If you're doing textured that number is going to come down. Since Dead or Alive 2 does a lot of non-textured polygons on the character models that adds up and makes sense.

You need to remember what's being posted here are Models and their polygon counts. That's not the same as what's being rendered each frame on screen. Polygons get culled and not all of them get processed and drawn. You need to use Polygons per frame to get your polygons per second count. "

Upcoming 32-64-bit, 5th-6th Gen Comparisons
TrekkiesUnite118: "I see you're also still completely mentally unstable. How unfortunate. "
Upcoming 32-64-bit, 5th-6th Gen Comparisons
TrekkiesUnite118: "Here's two sobering facts for you that torpedo your idea that Sega never did anything underhanded or wrong:

1) Sega tried to have similarly strict licensing agreements as Nintendo when they first launched the Genesis in the US. The only reason it didn't take off was because EA reverse engineered the hardware and blackmailed Sega into giving them a better licensing agreement.

2) Back in 1981 Konami made a game called Frogger. Because Konami had no US branch at the time Sega distributed it for them. However Sega went into the game and replaced all mentions of Konami with Sega and there was no mention of Konami anywhere in the game or on the cabinets. Sega also took all the rights to the game outside of Japan, so any port licenses, royalties, etc. all went to Sega instead of Konami who made the game. Sega basically claimed ownership and took credit for a game they didn't make. It wasn't until the the late 90's that Konami was finally able to buy the IP back from Sega.

Hows that for anti-competitive tactics? I'm sure if we really start digging we'll find even more. "

Upcoming 32-64-bit, 5th-6th Gen Comparisons
In case there was any question raised by any of these fact manipulating opine generators, the same statements already cited were reiterated again, but in scary different words.



Upcoming 32-64-bit, 5th-6th Gen Comparisons
TrekkiesUnite118: "It was such a bonkers statement that people called you out on it and started digging into other games to prove it didn't hold any water.

It would be one thing if you just came back and were posting and participating. But instead of you've decided to come back and continue the same argument from before that has been proven to be wrong over and over again. And on top of it you're trying to spin a false narrative with lies and sob stories that anyone who was there or can take 5 minutes to look up the history knows that's not true or what happened. If you're going to keep doing that, I'm going to keep calling you out on it. "

And here you go, read the "bonkers" article from before cell phones and anti-social media were a thing:

Critique away, I have had plenty of my own.  This was simply a representation of what was available on the Internet at the time, and what was commonly spoken in game stores at the time.


Upcoming 32-64-bit, 5th-6th Gen Comparisons

Upcoming 32-64-bit, 5th-6th Gen Comparisons

Upcoming 32-64-bit, 5th-6th Gen Comparisons

  The bottom line is here, the mods of Sega-16 do not see what is happening right under their noses, or they have stockholm syndrome.  But unlike their average expert member, I cannot diagnose somebody through a monitor and a keyboard.  So I will leave you all with this lovely bit of history.


In response to these hapless claims I can only respond with one of many basic, human, decent, expectations from a civilized group:

I do not hope, at all, that the moderators of popular forums like Sega-16 will ever care to to admit they already knew this or that they already had the capacity to curb the well poisoning idiocy of their groups.

Recommended reading from somebody who has done far, far more research than any armchair keyboard warrior opine generator:
The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self - Carl R. Trueman, Rod Dreher (Foreword)

1984 - George Orwell

Brave New World - Aldous Huxley


Inventory 2017

Game Room 2017

Boxes 2016

Saturn Collection 2016



SystemSega Genesis
PublisherRazor Soft
GenreEuro Puzzle Platformer
RegionNorth America
Release Year1990

Review and Tutorial by Katie B:

Stormlord Review

This review is in Adobe PDF format. If it does not load you will need to install PDF Reader from the Adobe website.



Racing Game Comparisons

Syndicate content